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Author Topic: When will there be impeachment?  (Read 7308 times)
conjugate
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« Reply #90 on: February 18, 2017, 1:18:17 pm »

I see nothing good coming out of this election over the next several years.

I remember, being older than dirt, that after the effort to impeach Nixon many Republicans felt cheated and ill-used.  I still feel that the impeachment of Clinton was in part a sort of "You guys impeached one of ours, so now it's our turn to impeach one of yours," much more than it was about any misdeeds of Bill Clinton.  Now I think that, no matter who becomes the first post-Trump President, that person's political opponents will insist on twisting anything he or she says out of proportion, screaming, "Our President is a total lunatic!  Impeach!  Use Amendment 25 Article 3!  Emoluments!  Hound him/her out of office!" 

Similarly, just as any Democratic judicial nominee is attacked as "revisionist" and portrayed as a threat to the Constitution, I suspect that any Cabinet appointee by a Democrat from here on out will face fierce, harsh criticism and painted as "wholly incompetent, totally unprepared" regardless of qualifications, because "The Dems did it to us, so we can do it to them!"

I feel the same way about some criticisms of the GOP, pointing out that they were unfair to Obama (as they provably were), so they shouldn't complain when we criticize Trump.  Unless our criticisms are really well-grounded (as many, but not all, are) I think we're in danger of reverting as a nation to third-grade argument level.  "...but HE started it!"  "No, I didn't!  YOU started it!"  "Nuh-uh!"  "Uh-huh!"  And so forth.

I hope I'm wrong.
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Unfortunately, I think conjugate gives good advice.
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conjugate
Compulsive punster and insatiable reader, and
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Posts: 19,448

Tends to have warped sense of humor


« Reply #91 on: February 18, 2017, 7:24:03 pm »

Sorry for the double post, but I'm not sure where else to post this.

Trump's popularity is increasing?  Is this a reliable source?  Who are these Rasmussen people, anyway?

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/political_updates/prez_track_feb17
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Unfortunately, I think conjugate gives good advice.
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cmeagher7
Spending way too much time on the fora if I am now a
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« Reply #92 on: February 18, 2017, 7:49:29 pm »

Unless our criticisms are really well-grounded (as many, but not all, are) I think we're in danger of reverting as a nation to third-grade argument level.  "...but HE started it!"  "No, I didn't!  YOU started it!"  "Nuh-uh!"  "Uh-huh!"  And so forth.

I hope I'm wrong.

Have politics always been this partisan? It seemed in the old days parties were driven by region and social status. Now they are driven by ideology.

That said, this is slipping as the GOP becomes more protectionist and against free trade.
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Quote
Quote
That thread is gonna be a train wreck.

Oh yeah, that's not going to go well.  (I was surprised at how quickly I realized which thread it was).
mamselle
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« Reply #93 on: February 18, 2017, 8:57:23 pm »

Given the fascized valorization of supposedly American values (despite his apparent frequency at the Duchess' table at the Bois de Boulogne), capitalism (however he interpreted it) and democratic free process (despite his having probably ordered the assassination of Kwame Nkrume after he was duly elected by his countrymen), I'd say Ike was as good an exponent of ideological values, (and hypocrisy) as you might wish.

 And my parents thought he was great.

M.
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protoplasm
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« Reply #94 on: February 18, 2017, 9:22:22 pm »

I see nothing good coming out of this election over the next several years.

I remember, being older than dirt, that after the effort to impeach Nixon many Republicans felt cheated and ill-used.  I still feel that the impeachment of Clinton was in part a sort of "You guys impeached one of ours, so now it's our turn to impeach one of yours," much more than it was about any misdeeds of Bill Clinton.  Now I think that, no matter who becomes the first post-Trump President, that person's political opponents will insist on twisting anything he or she says out of proportion, screaming, "Our President is a total lunatic!  Impeach!  Use Amendment 25 Article 3!  Emoluments!  Hound him/her out of office!" 

Similarly, just as any Democratic judicial nominee is attacked as "revisionist" and portrayed as a threat to the Constitution, I suspect that any Cabinet appointee by a Democrat from here on out will face fierce, harsh criticism and painted as "wholly incompetent, totally unprepared" regardless of qualifications, because "The Dems did it to us, so we can do it to them!"

I feel the same way about some criticisms of the GOP, pointing out that they were unfair to Obama (as they provably were), so they shouldn't complain when we criticize Trump.  Unless our criticisms are really well-grounded (as many, but not all, are) I think we're in danger of reverting as a nation to third-grade argument level.  "...but HE started it!"  "No, I didn't!  YOU started it!"  "Nuh-uh!"  "Uh-huh!"  And so forth.

I hope I'm wrong.

I was hoping a good scare like the danger posed by President DJT would wake everybody up and override the polarization.
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'Why would anyone begrudge adjunct faculty the right to a union?' Prytania3
economizer
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Words are at a loss for me.


« Reply #95 on: February 19, 2017, 5:15:38 pm »

I think the answer is, when the damage he is doing (to the nation and especially to the Republican party) exceeds the good he can do for the careers of the Congressional Republicans. I have to believe that someone (or maybe several people, independently) is quietly gathering evidence for that time, so that as soon as it becomes necessary, they can submit articles of impeachment.

I agree with this. All the chaos, lies, scandals, and maladministration don't benefit the Repubs.

They have to start the impeachment process, and I think they will.

They may even clothe it in "better for the country" rhetoric. That's OK with me, as long as they do it. Soon.

The Fiona

Did I say that?  It must have been stuffed in my mouth so powerfully that I reflexively spat it out!
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So, I straightened the whole thing out and what do you think I got for doing it?  Really, just take a guess!
tenured_feminist
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« Reply #96 on: February 20, 2017, 8:44:44 am »

Unless our criticisms are really well-grounded (as many, but not all, are) I think we're in danger of reverting as a nation to third-grade argument level.  "...but HE started it!"  "No, I didn't!  YOU started it!"  "Nuh-uh!"  "Uh-huh!"  And so forth.

I hope I'm wrong.

Have politics always been this partisan? It seemed in the old days parties were driven by region and social status. Now they are driven by ideology.

That said, this is slipping as the GOP becomes more protectionist and against free trade.

People can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the current moment is as polarized as politics has been since prior to the Civil War.  And we know how that ended.

I'd encourage people to focus, however, not on the breakdown and the war itself, but the aftermath, particularly the post-Reconstruction era. Here's what worries me. I do believe that a good bit of what rests at the bottom of this is race. During the war and Reconstruction, racial politics continued to be extremely toxic and rancorous. The nation finally came back together again in the period between approximately 1876 and 1896, when We the People agreed that recreating and preserving a functional nation was more important than institutionalizing and maintaining the formal rights that freedmen and women had gained through emancipation.
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Quote
You people are not fooling me. I know exactly what occurred in that thread, and I know exactly what you all are doing.
nebo113
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Posts: 3,771


« Reply #97 on: February 20, 2017, 12:08:38 pm »

Unless our criticisms are really well-grounded (as many, but not all, are) I think we're in danger of reverting as a nation to third-grade argument level.  "...but HE started it!"  "No, I didn't!  YOU started it!"  "Nuh-uh!"  "Uh-huh!"  And so forth.

I hope I'm wrong.

Have politics always been this partisan? It seemed in the old days parties were driven by region and social status. Now they are driven by ideology.

That said, this is slipping as the GOP becomes more protectionist and against free trade.

People can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the current moment is as polarized as politics has been since prior to the Civil War.  And we know how that ended.

I'd encourage people to focus, however, not on the breakdown and the war itself, but the aftermath, particularly the post-Reconstruction era. Here's what worries me. I do believe that a good bit of what rests at the bottom of this is race. During the war and Reconstruction, racial politics continued to be extremely toxic and rancorous. The nation finally came back together again in the period between approximately 1876 and 1896, when We the People agreed that recreating and preserving a functional nation was more important than institutionalizing and maintaining the formal rights that freedmen and women had gained through emancipation.

And this seems to fit Bannon's 80 year timeline.
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cmeagher7
Spending way too much time on the fora if I am now a
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Posts: 2,159


« Reply #98 on: February 20, 2017, 2:04:25 pm »

Unless our criticisms are really well-grounded (as many, but not all, are) I think we're in danger of reverting as a nation to third-grade argument level.  "...but HE started it!"  "No, I didn't!  YOU started it!"  "Nuh-uh!"  "Uh-huh!"  And so forth.

I hope I'm wrong.

Have politics always been this partisan? It seemed in the old days parties were driven by region and social status. Now they are driven by ideology.

That said, this is slipping as the GOP becomes more protectionist and against free trade.

People can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the current moment is as polarized as politics has been since prior to the Civil War.  And we know how that ended.

I'd encourage people to focus, however, not on the breakdown and the war itself, but the aftermath, particularly the post-Reconstruction era. Here's what worries me. I do believe that a good bit of what rests at the bottom of this is race. During the war and Reconstruction, racial politics continued to be extremely toxic and rancorous. The nation finally came back together again in the period between approximately 1876 and 1896, when We the People agreed that recreating and preserving a functional nation was more important than institutionalizing and maintaining the formal rights that freedmen and women had gained through emancipation.

Agree about the racism. It's shocking how little progress we have made, and how structural racism remains.
Logged

Quote
Quote
That thread is gonna be a train wreck.

Oh yeah, that's not going to go well.  (I was surprised at how quickly I realized which thread it was).
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