• September 26, 2016
September 26, 2016, 4:48:28 pm *
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Author Topic: Police Brutality  (Read 72239 times)
theblondeassassin
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« Reply #495 on: Today at 03:36:09 am »

I wonder if there are any statistics of the number of African British men killed in, say, the UK as opposed to in the U.S.A.  Of course, the police aren't necessarily all armed in the UK, but there you go.

I wonder when someone is going to invent a tool that allows people to search almost all human knowledge just by typing a few words.

There have been nine deaths in the UK at the hands of law enforcement officers during THIS DECADE. Total.

There were 21 deaths in the US in July 2016.
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My hovercraft is full of eels, so I don't suppose snails in a fish tank is so very strange.
wet_blanket
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« Reply #496 on: Today at 09:32:37 am »

I wonder if there are any statistics of the number of African British men killed in, say, the UK as opposed to in the U.S.A.  Of course, the police aren't necessarily all armed in the UK, but there you go.

I wonder when someone is going to invent a tool that allows people to search almost all human knowledge just by typing a few words.

There have been nine deaths in the UK at the hands of law enforcement officers during THIS DECADE. Total.

There were 21 deaths in the US in July 2016.

I'm seeing slightly different numbers - see https://www.ipcc.gov.uk/page/deaths-during-or-following-police-contact which has 24 fatal shootings in England and Wales plus another couple of hundred depending on how we define  at police hands.  Still, your point that it's orders of magnitude lower than in the US is well made.  Given the low numbers, it probably isn't possible to say anything meaningful about ethnicity or compare the effect of ethnicity in the UK to that of race in the US.
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pedanterast
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« Reply #497 on: Today at 12:37:34 pm »

I wonder if there are any statistics of the number of African British men killed in, say, the UK as opposed to in the U.S.A.  Of course, the police aren't necessarily all armed in the UK, but there you go.

I wonder when someone is going to invent a tool that allows people to search almost all human knowledge just by typing a few words.

There have been nine deaths in the UK at the hands of law enforcement officers during THIS DECADE. Total.

There were 21 deaths in the US in July 2016.

I'm seeing slightly different numbers - see https://www.ipcc.gov.uk/page/deaths-during-or-following-police-contact which has 24 fatal shootings in England and Wales plus another couple of hundred depending on how we define  at police hands.  Still, your point that it's orders of magnitude lower than in the US is well made.  Given the low numbers, it probably isn't possible to say anything meaningful about ethnicity or compare the effect of ethnicity in the UK to that of race in the US.

Regardless, it's a pretty strong argument that the police in the U.S. should be immediately disarmed.
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helpful
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« Reply #498 on: Today at 01:35:52 pm »

I can't help thinking that because of the undying (no pun intended) devotion to the 2nd amendment that police now are feeling in fear of their lives when they encounter an African American male. Yes, they don't feel the same when encountering White American males but surely the notion that everyone can be armed legally is a perceived threat to the police.  Perhaps it is an unintended consequence of the current view of the 2nd amendment, but surely it contributes to these killings?

I would question this and explain the racial demographics of gun ownership, but after a few exchanges in which you write even stranger things, ignoring the response, you will just say that you meant something else.
I was not speaking of the demographics of gun ownership, just the fact that everyone has the right to guns means that the police will see black men even more as an increased threat. And this is accentuated by the racism that places black men as a threat. 

I wonder if there are any statistics of the number of African British men killed in, say, the UK as opposed to in the U.S.A.  Of course, the police aren't necessarily all armed in the UK, but there you go.

W T F
This is called a Forum for a reason. I thought there might be someone out there who would be researching this kind of thing.  And I see there is someone who responded with a reasonable conversation with the data rather than acronyms that mean something only to the sender.
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fizmath
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« Reply #499 on: Today at 01:47:29 pm »

I wonder if there are any statistics of the number of African British men killed in, say, the UK as opposed to in the U.S.A.  Of course, the police aren't necessarily all armed in the UK, but there you go.

I wonder when someone is going to invent a tool that allows people to search almost all human knowledge just by typing a few words.

There have been nine deaths in the UK at the hands of law enforcement officers during THIS DECADE. Total.

There were 21 deaths in the US in July 2016.

I am sure it was much higher in Belfast in the 1970's if you count civilians killed by British troops.  If UK police had to deal with a riot like we have in Charlotte then they might have to use more deadly force.
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scotia
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« Reply #500 on: Today at 03:14:39 pm »

I wonder if there are any statistics of the number of African British men killed in, say, the UK as opposed to in the U.S.A.  Of course, the police aren't necessarily all armed in the UK, but there you go.

I wonder when someone is going to invent a tool that allows people to search almost all human knowledge just by typing a few words.

There have been nine deaths in the UK at the hands of law enforcement officers during THIS DECADE. Total.

There were 21 deaths in the US in July 2016.

If UK police had to deal with a riot like we have in Charlotte then they might have to use more deadly force.

There were riots in 2011 following the shooting of Mark Duggan by police officers. Most, if not all, officers on the frontline policing the riots were armed with nothing more lethal than a baton and a shield (some may have had tasers, but I don't remember reports of them being deployed).

In the UK only specially trained police officers carry firearms - and they are a small proportion of the total police numbers (somewhere around 5%). Most police go through their entire career without ever touching a gun. There is a plan to increase the numbers of trained officers because of the perceived increased terrorist risk (post-Paris), but they will not be openly wandering the streets of London clutching guns. The brother of one of my friends is an authorised armed officer, and even he very rarely carries a gun.
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yeahright
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« Reply #501 on: Today at 03:17:06 pm »

I can't help thinking that because of the undying (no pun intended) devotion to the 2nd amendment that police now are feeling in fear of their lives when they encounter an African American male. Yes, they don't feel the same when encountering White American males but surely the notion that everyone can be armed legally is a perceived threat to the police.  Perhaps it is an unintended consequence of the current view of the 2nd amendment, but surely it contributes to these killings?

I would question this and explain the racial demographics of gun ownership, but after a few exchanges in which you write even stranger things, ignoring the response, you will just say that you meant something else.
I was not speaking of the demographics of gun ownership, just the fact that everyone has the right to guns means that the police will see black men even more as an increased threat. And this is accentuated by the racism that places black men as a threat. 

I wonder if there are any statistics of the number of African British men killed in, say, the UK as opposed to in the U.S.A.  Of course, the police aren't necessarily all armed in the UK, but there you go.

W T F
This is called a Forum for a reason. I thought there might be someone out there who would be researching this kind of thing.  And I see there is someone who responded with a reasonable conversation with the data rather than acronyms that mean something only to the sender.

ICYMI, IDGAF: JSYK
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prof_twocents
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Did I miss anything important?


« Reply #502 on: Today at 04:13:42 pm »

Regardless, it's a pretty strong argument that the police in the U.S. should be immediately disarmed.

Sadly, I think the reality of the 2nd amendment has rendered that solution non-viable. Gun ownership in the U.K. is extremely rare. In the U.S., there are so many guns flooding towns and cities (about 17 times the rate of gun ownership in the U.K.) that officers have a reasonable basis for assuming that every suspect is armed. There are, after all, more guns in the U.S. than there are people. Unilaterally disarming the police in the U.S. would allow serious criminals to run rampant. It is a vicious, destructive arms race, and finding a solution will be an extraordinary long-term challenge.

What absolutely does have to change in the short term is police training and rules of engagement. Police need to be rigorously trained to de-escalate situations rather than escalate them, and to resort to deadly force only when all other options have been tried and exhausted. Right now, police say that their goal is for all officers to stay alive. That's a valid goal, but utterly insufficient. The goal needs to be for EVERYONE to stay alive, both officers and people they interact with.
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