Mr. Varsity Blues Claps Back
Released from prison and back in the college-consulting business, Rick Singer is chippy, driven, and — he promises — squeaky clean.
In This Episode
After 16 months in a federal prison camp, William (Rick) Singer has had time to reflect on his role as the architect of a college-admissions bribery scheme that became known as Varsity Blues. The college consultant has apologized for concocting a plot that helped wealthy families, including some Hollywood celebrities, secure admission for their children to prestigious universities. But he isn’t slinking into the shadows. Singer says he’s already back in the consulting business. And he has come out of prison swinging, blasting the FBI, the college-admissions system, and anyone who might question the credentials of the students he represented.
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In This Episode
After 16 months in a federal prison camp, William (Rick) Singer has had time to reflect on his role as the architect of a college-admissions bribery scheme that became known as Varsity Blues. The college consultant has apologized for concocting a plot that helped wealthy families, including some Hollywood celebrities, secure admission for their children to prestigious universities. But he isn’t slinking into the shadows. Singer says he’s already back in the consulting business. And he has come out of prison swinging, blasting the FBI, the college-admissions system, and anyone who might question the credentials of the students he represented.
Listen
Related Reading
- ‘It’s an Aristocracy’: What the Admissions-Bribery Scandal Has Exposed About Class on Campus (The Chronicle)
- Higher Ed’s Bribery Scandal Is Decadent and Depraved. Here Are 8 Truly Tasteless Allegations (The Chronicle)
- We, the Privileged Parents That Matter, Applaud the Netflix College-Admissions Scandal Doc (The Chronicle)
- Admission Through the ‘Side Door’ (The Chronicle)
Guest
- William (Rick) Singer, college consultant
Transcript
This transcript was produced using a speech recognition software. It was reviewed by production staff, but may contain errors. Please email us at collegematters@chronicle.com if you have any questions.
Jack Stripling This is College Matters from The Chronicle.
Rick Singer Am I right? Absolutely, I’m 100 percent wrong. But I compartmentalize this to think, ah, what’s the big deal? It’s one kid, he gets his chance to go to a school that he’s qualified to go academically, but the test is going to stop him from getting into any good school that he wants to go to.
Jack Stripling In an expansive college admissions scheme that led to the convictions of more than 50 parents, coaches, and others, one man stood out as uniquely culpable. Over a decade, according to prosecutors, William (Rick) Singer, a college consultant, orchestrated an elaborate system of bribery and fraud with one goal in mind: Helping wealthy families to secure admission for their children / into highly-selective universities, including Yale, Stanford, and Georgetown. Details of the scheme, which first came to public light in 2019, were discovered by investigators in what became known as Operation Varsity Blues. Singer’s clients, who included wealthy financiers and Hollywood celebrities, went to often absurd lengths to get their children into prestigious colleges — agreeing to pay off coaches, and fraudulently passing off their children as college-level athletes. After pleading guilty to four felonies, Singer spent 16 months at a federal prison work camp in Pensacola, Florida. He’s done his time. And he’s now living in Newport Beach, Calif., where he’s already back to work as a college consultant. In a recent interview, I asked him to reflect on how he lost his way. What followed was an at-times contentious conversation with Singer, a pugnacious former college basketball coach, who still seems to want to win at everything — including the interview.
Jack Stripling Well, Rick Singer, welcome to College Matters from the Chronicle.
Rick Singer I appreciate it. Thank you for having me.
Jack Stripling So you’re talking to us after having served 16 months in a federal prison camp for your role in the admissions bribery scandal that became known as Varsity Blues. You’ve had a lot of time to think about what happened. When you look back on this, is there something in particular that still haunts you about it?
Rick Singer What haunts me is I have not had an opportunity, because the DOJ would not allow me to, is actually contact all those that were involved and say I’m sorry that I put them through what they went through. And also speak to those that weren’t involved in this and just say I am sorry if I tarnished anything that’s happened in your life and your reputations because you had nothing to do with this, but my name was involved in it.
Jack Stripling You had run for many years a legitimate college consulting business, but at some point in time you started crossing ethical and legal lines. And I’m curious, I don’t know if you can remember, Rick, but I have been thinking about this. What’s your first specific memory of crossing one of those lines?
Rick Singer To be frank with you, I don’t believe that I crossed that line — the ethical and legal line — for a long time. But I will tell you the first time I felt a little different because I was asked to help a family that was based in Vancouver, and a gentleman by the name of David Sidoo came down from Vancouver to LA. And he had a problem that he wanted to know if I could fix for him. That problem was that his eldest, was known as the best student at his school, and I believe that school was St. George’s, which is I think perceived as the best school in Vancouver. And this was a young man that was very well liked, had great grades, performing arts kid, wanted to be in the film world. And his biggest issue was, for his eldest, was that he was not a good test taker. And no matter how much tutoring the family paid for that the son did he still could not perform very well. And he wanted to go to one of the best film schools — USC being one of them; Chapman being the other, because Chapman was perceived as the second best film school in the country at that time; NYU third. But he would need, despite his talent and what he could produce, he would need a decent test score to go along with his grades. And he asked me, could I do something to enhance his scores? And I used my creative abilities. And at that time, the test was given as a hard copy. It was given as …
Jack Stripling This is an SAT test, correct?
Rick Singer An SAT test, right. And when you came to take the test, all you had to do — cause you went to a national test center — all you had to do was show your ID. That was your high school ID. So he had some learning differences already and he was already being given 50 percent extended time. So I asked the family if getting the extended time would make it so that his test scores would go up with additional tutoring. They had tested him with additional time and his scores went up slightly but not significantly. So, my idea was, if we could get him 100 percent extended time, then we could take the test — not at a national test center, but at his school or at another school that would be, is willing to give the test to kids that need 100 percent time. So we tried to get him tested for a 100 percent more time, and unfortunately he did not qualify. So now what do we do? So I thought that the person that I could find that could take the test for him was a brilliant young man and still looked young. His name was Mark Riddell. Mark worked for us at IMG…
Jack Stripling Rick, I’m sorry to interrupt you, but I feel like we skipped right into where you felt like you’d crossed the line. You at some point, when these other methods weren’t working out, decided, I am going to pay somebody else to take this test for my client’s kid.
Rick Singer That’s correct.
Jack Stripling Was that a big decision for you?
Rick Singer Frankly, I think I compartmentalized it and said, hey this is one kid. I don’t think I thought about that it was such a bad thing. I knew it was cheating — 100 percent knew it was cheating. However, I looked at is though you know what people cheat all the time; they cheat on tests. I have people calling me every time the SAT and ACT is taken across the world and being told that kids are in the bathroom sharing the answers to the tests. Kids from China, kids from overseas are sending pictures of the tests to kids into the bathroom and then they’re using those answers. So am I right? Absolutely, I’m 100 percent wrong. But I compartmentalize this to think, ah, what’s the big deal? It’s one kid. He gets his chance to go to a school that he’s qualified to go academically, but the test is going to stop him from getting into any good school that he wants to go to.
Jack Stripling And you had more or less convinced yourself that so many people were dishonest in this arena that what’s one more person?
Rick Singer That’s correct. I rationalized the situation and I was 100 percent wrong. But at the time I rationalized it, and I did the same thing multiple times again — not the same kind of situation, but I helped families and kids cheat on the test more than once. So this was the, you asked, when was the first time? This is the first time. And I had Mark Riddell, who lived in Florida, and worked at IMG Academies as a tutor and a tennis instructor, take the test for the young man. So what we had was the young man sent me his ID, and we repurposed the ID and put Mark’s picture on his ID. At that time then, we didn’t take the tests at his school or at a national test center near the school in Vancouver. We took it somewhere else where Mark could walk in and be that student and nobody would know any different.
Jack Stripling Riddell pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to commit mail fraud and honest services mail fraud, and one count conspiracy to commit money laundering. And Mr. Sidoo, who you mentioned earlier, has also pleaded to crimes associated with the Varsity Blues scandal.
Rick Singer That is correct. And then Mark took the test for the young man, scored a score that I asked him to score, and that helped him get himself into all the schools that he wanted to go to.
Jack Stripling I’m curious, Rick, as you look back on this, you’re giving me kind of a, almost a blasé rendition of this, that you knew it was wrong, but you kind of didn’t see it was a big deal. The prosecutors say that you paid off the test proctors, which we’ve talked about, and administrators to cheat on college entrance exams, that you facilitated the bribing of athletics coaches to pass off your clients’ children as athletes for admission. You took enormous professional and personal risk to do this. And, as I hear you talk, I’m not sure whether you were fully conscious of how big the risks were. Were you?
Rick Singer Absolutely not. Like in this test taking, to me, I mean, I knew it was a risk, but you know, it’s one kid. It’s one kid here, it’s one kid there. And again, if you know what goes on every Saturday that the SAT or ACT is being given, and how much cheating is going on, and then how much cheating is going on at every high school in America on every AP exam, exams given at schools. I thought, no big deal.
Jack Stripling I’m curious how you evaluate yourself as a college counselor, though. Did you really figure out something people didn’t understand about college admissions? Or is it just that you were willing to do things that were wrong?
Rick Singer Well, I think what you forget about is that I had thousands of kids that went through our for-profit company and did everything legitimately. And I spent more time than, I would say most of these other people who say they’re college counselors, getting to know every university and getting to know all the people on these university staffs. I spent every summer visiting 50 to 60 schools across the country at all sizes, at all levels of schools, and getting to know everybody on that campus I could. So I got to know the admissions people, I got to know the international admissions people. I got to know the president’s staff. I got to know all the dorm people. I got everybody, and students on that campus, so that when I referred a student to a particular school, I could tell you what they’re serving in the dining commons. I could tell you exactly what the dorms look like and the multiple dorms. I could tell you what the fitness facilities were like. I could tell you the philosophy of the university executive council. I could tell you the philosophy of the admissions people, because I actually know them personally, can pick up the phone and call them. So, to give you an example. Let’s say you had a child and your child was applying to x-college and we wanted a status of where you fall within that admissions person’s group that they were reading for that geographic area. If I didn’t know you, I could call somebody on that staff and that staff member would find out for me personally where you fall in the eyes of that admissions person reading your application and or the committee.
Jack Stripling Can you make that call anymore, Rick? You’ve expressed interest in getting back into college counseling. I’m curious whether anybody at a university is picking up the phone for Rick Singer now.
Rick Singer Oh, they’re already calling me. You got people calling me, asking me, especially now that you have in athletics, you have an NIL and collective issue going on all over the country where athletes are transferring from schools, to schools, to schools. And the boosters, which are the collectives, are now funding the payment to athletes to come to schools. They’re getting money from their alumnus. But they also need money from the outside. Within three days of me being released from Pensacola, I’ve received no less than 20 phone calls from 20 different collectives asking me if I’d be interested in partnering with them and raising money for them. Now, with President Trump making a decision on taking monies away from universities that do not want to follow his legislation that he’s trying to put forward with DEI, I have universities now calling me asking me, if we lose our funding, is there a way to help our funding, and do you know families and others that would be willing to donate to our school?
Jack Stripling I have to say, Rick, I’m really surprised to hear this. I would think that you would be, respectfully, considered a toxic person in higher education now.
Rick Singer And you’re probably right. But that is probably those people that don’t understand that higher education is a business. And you got to figure out from a business perspective, how are you going to fund the programs that you have? How are you gonna continue to grow your university’s reputation? So, if you think about it, there’s 20 to 40 schools every year that are going to close because they don’t have enrollment numbers and they don’t have money. How are you funding all these programs? How are you funding these departments?
Jack Stripling Well, let’s talk specifically about NIL — name, image, and likeness. So you mentioned that athletics departments are contacting you to see if you can help raise money? I just want to make sure I understand.
Rick Singer I’m telling you, the collectives, which are outside of the university’s purview. They work with the university. They work the coaches, but they are an outside group in most cases. Many universities have brought their collectives in-house. But many have not. And their job is to provide sponsorships and opportunities for kids that they are trying to recruit who are high level kids and provide them monies. Now …
Jack Stripling Has anyone from a collective or a university said, Rick Singer, if you can get us money, we will help you get a student admitted to our highly selective institution?
Rick Singer Yes.
Jack Stripling What do you think about that?
Rick Singer What’s funny over the several years that I was involved in my case and then went to camp, the rules of the world have changed. What they’re doing is legal. I think it’s crazy that it’s legal because I got in trouble for what they’re doing.
Jack Stripling You’re saying that you think that a collective outside of the university, saying that we will offer admission to an otherwise unqualified student that Rick Singer represents in exchange for money …
Rick Singer No, the student’s qualified.
Jack Stripling Is legal?
Rick Singer The student is qualified. Why do you keep saying that the student’s not qualified to get in?
Jack Stripling Well, because I’m talking to Rick Singer. At the heart…
Rick Singer But my students. No, no, no. You keep throwing on that my kids weren’t qualified. They are qualified to get into these schools. They’re all qualified because here’s the bottom line. They all graduate. How about the kids who get in and got in for years over affirmative action who weren’t qualified, but they got in because there’s a reason why they got in. How about the kids…
Jack Stripling Understood. But you were representing students, Rick, who would not have been admitted under the traditional course had it not been for acts of bribery
Rick Singer No
Jack Stripling or paying off people at test centers. This is the heart of the case, no?
Rick Singer No, no. First of all, the bribery...
Jack Stripling Why did you have to go through all these hoops if these students would have gotten in otherwise?
Rick Singer Jack, let me ask you a question: Did any university give me my money back? No. Did anybody block me making donations? No. Did universities send me letters, saying, thank you so much for your donation of 500,000. So let me ask you, if I’m getting letters from the university saying, thank you much for your donation, I’m getting kids into school and they’re graduating. The university knows what I’m doing. The university also knows that they’re getting money from other families, that there are thousands of emails running across from admissions, to the president’s offices, to departments, to athletics, stating: This is a VIP family. They are willing to give us money to the university. Let’s make sure that we take care of them. This has been going on forever.
Jack Stripling Rick, I absolutely want to talk to you about what is considered acceptable in college admissions, because I think it’s dizzying and I think you’re making a very good point there. But just as a matter of record, it sounds like you’re saying you never bribed anyone. You pleaded guilty to racketeering conspiracy, money laundering conspiracy. Conspiracy to defraud the United States and obstruction of justice. The conspiracy charges that are associated with these guilty pleas are very much under the umbrella of bribery. I mean I’m looking now …
Rick Singer Hundred percent. But you’re talking about, none of us fought it …
Jack Stripling Well, you’re describing these as donations. That’s not how the government views this.
Rick Singer Well, that’s fine. The government. We spent day after day after day fighting that “donation or bribe,” okay? Their whole point was it was quid pro quo. So I will tell you this. I accepted the fact that I pled guilty and it was called a bribe. They spent, and we all the way to the end, if you notice, I never testified. Why didn’t I testify? Because they were afraid that I was going to call this a donation. When we…
Jack Stripling If you use purported charitable donations from parents, at least in part to bribe two SAT and ACT test administrators, do you not consider that bribery?
Rick Singer That was a payment. That’s not bribery. I’m not bribing somebody to do it. We are doing business with each other. I’m not bribing them. How about all the coaches that are calling me? Am I bribing them when they call me to say, “Can you help me find a donation?” The administrator from X school is calling me saying, “Hey, we need to raise a certain amount of money for our school.” Am I the one bribing them or are they calling me with a business opportunity? You can call it whatever you want at the end of the day. Am I saying what I did on the testing stuff was right? It’s a 100 percent wrong. 100 percent wrong.
Jack Stripling Do you think any of this would have happened absent your presence?
Rick Singer Oh, it’s going on all the time. I’m not, like everybody…
Jack Stirpling No, but this particular conspiracy that we’re talking about, again, quoting the government, “No other defendant’s involvement was as extensive, nor was any co-conspirators conduct more deceptive, corruption more deep-rooted, or lies more pervasive than Singer’s.” Do you agree with that?
Rick Singer Oh, I think there’s lots of people out there that are doing worse than I am.
Jack Stripling Sure.
Rick Singer They made me the poster boy, right, of this whole scenario.
Jack Stripling Stick around, we’ll be back in a minute.
BREAK
Jack Stripling Rick Singer, as long as I have you here, do you mind if I ask you a little bit about your work with the FBI?
Rick Singer Be my guest.
Jack Stripling You were approached by law enforcement agents in September of 2018, and you agreed to cooperate with the government’s investigation of your co-conspirators. Talk to me about when you were first approached. What happened?
Rick Singer Well, a ruse was committed on my behalf by the coach at Yale, Rudy Meredith, who had called me and who was a co-conspirator, a person who I worked with for years and years, one of many, many coaches who had called me and said, hey, listen, can you come to Boston? And I have some athletic directors and some presidents that want to meet you. And I said, well, who are they? And he told me who they were. And I said well I already have relationships with most of those people. Why do I need to come to Boston? And he said, well, they want to do some other stuff with you. So out of respect, I came to Boston and took the overnight flight, met at a hotel with Rudy. Rudy then took me upstairs into a hotel conference room, a room, and I was supposed to be there with all these people. When I got there, obviously, there were no people in that room. We sat down and I asked him, kind of, where are we with this? And there was a knock on the door, and he had committed a great ruse against me. More power to him and the government. And they knocked on the door, the FBI, the treasury agents came running in with their guns. I sat in the corner with my legs crossed. They grabbed Rudy, they threw him against the wall, which was all pre-planned, handcuffed him and took him outside. And then Charlie’s Angels — the three FBI agents I worked with — and some of the treasury people all came rushing in and said hey you just committed all these crimes. And one of the things they stated was that I bribed all these officials, and I stated for the next three days I didn’t bribe anybody, we collected donations. Immediately upon them coming in the door, they sat down and asked me if I would cooperate. I said well I don’t even know what you have on me. I don’t even know what’s going on. I don’t understand what…
Jack Stripling Were you terrified in this situation, Rick?
Rick Singer No, because I didn’t think I did anything wrong. So…
Jack Stripling Being in a hotel room that’s raided by FBI agents, seeing a guy thrown against a wall in handcuffs that didn’t …
Rick Singer It didn’t it didn’t bother me because I felt, you can ask me whatever you want to ask me, I’m fine. What I didn’t know at the time, until they came in, that they had been wiring my phone for six to eight months before. They had all my emails. They had all my texts for months and months and months and months. And when they sat down and started to ask me questions, they could read back to me exactly transcripts of what I said on all these calls that happened six months before.
Jack Stripling So you’re thinking my goose is cooked at that point?
Rick Singer No. No, I’m not. I’m just…
Jack Stripling OK. You’re still not thinking a crime has been committed?
Rick Singer I’m trying to figure out, what are you trying to get from me? I asked to speak to an attorney. They, of course, tell me we’ll give you an attorney to call. Okay, we’re gonna give you somebody to call. Okay, so give me the number and I’ll call them. Well, what I didn’t know is also that the U.S. Attorney, all bunch of them, were in the room next door to me. And they gave me a phone number to call and I called that federal employee and he didn’t answer. Then I told the FBI, by the way, he didn’t answer. They called him and yelled at him, answer the phone. I called him again. He didn’t answer. So I asked if I could call my own attorney. And at that point I called the best litigator I knew that I worked with. I handled his kids, I worked with his kids. And then he referred me to another attorney because he didn’t handle federal matters. I called that other attorney and ironically, when he got on the phone with me, he started laughing. I told him who I was. And I said, why are you laughing? And he said, do you know who I am? I said absolutely no, I don’t. I just know your name is Don. He goes, I am Don Heller. You worked with both of my kids. You spent years in my home. I know you and what you do intimately. And I appreciate everything that you did for my family. You made an unbelievable, significant difference in my two kids and thank you. Hold on, let me call the U.S. attorney who’s in charge here. And let me ask him where we stand. He had called the U.S. Attorney, Eric Rosen. Eric talked to him. And he called me back and said you are screwed. He said you are the smartest, dumbest person I know. And I said why? He goes because you would not be in this situation had you just picked up the phone and called an attorney, and asked him if what you were doing was kosher. He said you were living in the gray area and the government, they make their own definitions of the gray area. They can make anything into anything they want, and they got you. They’ve been wiring your phone, your emails, they have all your financial records. They know exactly what they’re doing, and based on their definition of quid pro quo and their definition of bribe, they’re going to charge you.
Jack Stripling You had profited handsomely from your activities, and I assume you grew accustomed to a certain lifestyle. I know there’s back and forth about how much money you really made here, but prosecutors say you used $15 million of your client’s money for your own benefit.
Rick Singer Absolutely not.
Jack Stripling When did it sink in for you that life as you knew it was essentially over?
Rick Singer When I got done with that weekend that they made me stay in Boston. But I didn’t profit from that money. That money was not used for me. That money was used to propel what we were doing for the students and the money was being given to the universities. The money was given to the proctors. The money was not given and was not given to me to use for my personal self. It was all money that went out. And I hired an ex-FBI forensics person who actually put all that together and we were never given the opportunity to give that to the DOJ and to the U.S. attorney. They didn’t care. They already started their case and they moved on, and so I had to just move on and accept whatever they’re going to say, they’re gonna say and that’s kind of where we were.
So when you keep saying that I cooperated and I accepted all of the charges, that means I accepted it from them, but personally I didn’t accept it.
Jack Stripling I think people have trouble believing this idea that you didn’t profit from this enterprise.
Rick Singer That’s Ok. Everybody is, everybody’s welcome to their own opinion.
Jack Stripling Your lifestyle didn’t change one iota?
Rick Singer No, because the reality, this is a tiny part of my business. We had a….
Jack Stripling Why were you being ordered to pay more than ten million dollars in restitution to the IRS if you hadn’t made money off this?
Rick Singer I’m not being ordered to pay over 10 million to the IRS. I’m actually now in a restoration cause. So let’s talk about this. Two weeks to a month before I was ready to go to camp, we were told that I owed them $10 million.
Jack Stripling That’s what I’m reading from.
Rick Singer Exactly. We said, this is crazy. Where did you come up with that number? You just made up a number.
Jack Stripling So, what is the, just Rick, briefly, what is the status of all of this? I didn’t pull the number out of thin air, as you know. So, do you owe money to the government or not?
Rick Singer Well, I do owe, I owe money to the government.
Jack Stripling And there’s an ongoing dispute about how much?
Rick Singer No, the dispute is over because I had to agree to a $4.7 million restoration. We are still on every paper. including the paper you have, still shows 10 million. We’re waiting for the status of the restoration and the 4.7 million, not 10 million.
Jack Stripling Understood. Thank you for the clarification.
Rick Singer And we still don’t agree with the 4.7. But we had to agree so we can move on, so I could get sentenced and we could move on with my life.
Jack Stripling Are you in money troubles, though?
Rick Singer No.
Jack Stripling You feel financially secure now?
Rick Singer I feel I’m okay.
Jack Stripling So, I want to ask you a little bit about your experience in the prison camp. You were there for 16 months in a prison camp in Pensacola, Florida. It’s a minimum security facility. I’ve heard media reports describe it as cushy. What was your experience like though?
Rick Singer Well I think that media report was back when Barbara Walters did an interview and came to campus and was so surprised that there was a pool there. There were tennis courts there. There was all these things there, and she said, how could this be a prison, right? Let me tell you, there’s no pool there anymore, ok? There are tennis courts. So, my experience was as good as it could be. So when I got there, the first thing I did, I was told that the first thing you need to do is get a great job. So I went through what they call R&D, which is when they take your clothes, they give you your new outfit, they give an ID and all that stuff. And the second I got done, I ran to the fitness center and to the recreation officers and asked for a job. Because I knew the way to make this experience positive was you have to have a job that you didn’t mind going to every day.
Jack Stripling Did you find it to be an unpleasant experience?
Rick Singer No.
Jack Stripling I am curious whether you offered any college consulting advice to anyone in the prison camp.
Rick Singer Actually I offered a lot. There are a lot of gentlemen there that have been in prison for a while and are relatively young folks compared to me. And they have kids at home. They have five-year-old through 18-year-olds. And they would come to me and ask me how they could help their kids be stronger in school and get more opportunities down the road. So what I did do is I worked with a lot of families there where the dads would call the mom or the grandmother, whoever’s taking care of the younger kids, and ask the questions that I needed to know, which was: What was the lexile level of their kids? What was the math level of their kids? And then my family would send from Amazon directly books to their house to do workbooks, that I gave to my own son to do when he was going through the process, to help their kids garner a better foundation and figure out what their kids didn’t know and what they did know so that they had a chance.
Jack Stripling You mentioned your son. I think he was probably in his 20s, I think, when the FBI approached you. Do I have that about right?
Rick Singer I think so.
Jack Stripling I’m curious about conversations you’ve had with him if you’re comfortable talking about it. I’m curious about conversations you’ve had with your family about this.
Rick Singer Well, let me tell you …
Jack Stripling Did you feel the need to ask forgiveness of them?
Rick Singer No. To be frank with you, my family, generations over generations, have been involved with the FBI for years. And they already think the FBI is despicable. They have been involved with lots of things that have been turned around on our family, and other things that happened. So, they don’t believe half the stuff that goes on, and they do know that the FBI and the U.S. Attorneys do whatever they want to do. You pretty much have no chance when you have to deal with the DOJ. So you either accept what they’re going to provide to you, and that’s why I accepted the cooperation, or you fight them and you get a worse penalty. I will tell you of people in my camp that went to court and were offered a plea deal and got six to 10 years extra because they fought it.
Jack Stripling You may not agree with the government’s complete case. I understand that. But you have accepted responsibility for your role in this.
Rick Singer 100 percent.
Jack Stripling And you have told me on multiple occasions today that you know what you did was wrong.
Rick Singer 100 percent.
Jack Stripling I’m curious about being in a high profile situation that is potentially embarrassing, whether you had difficult conversations at all with your family about that.
Rick Singer They’re not difficult conversations. You make them difficult. I don’t make them difficult. We’re having conversations as a family would. Not every conversation is happy-go-lucky, and not every conversation is pleasant. When you talk about reality, I took full responsibility. There is nothing that the government said I did — the actual of doing the things I did — I did everything that they said that I did. You can define it differently than I do, but I did every single thing they said.
Jack Stripling I think this is a complicated way of me asking if you ever felt shame.
Rick Singer Oh I feel shame all the time, because I feel bad that my family’s name had to be involved. I feel terrible that my son, at the time when he was graduating school and finishing seminary, that he had to be thrown into this. So I feel disappointment in myself. Shame, not maybe the shame that you think of, but just shame that I was stupid. I could have stopped all of this, all of it, by getting the appropriate advice from counsel. Listen, it was my fault. And all I had to do was call an attorney and the attorney could have said to me, whoa what you’re doing is wrong.
Jack Stripling Am I wrong to be worried though, Rick? Because you’re still getting up at four o’clock in the morning, you’ve done more by 6 a.m than I’ll probably do today. You said you were taking 20-30 calls about NIL, this sort of thing. A person might hear this and think, Rick’s gonna get into this same stuff again.
Rick Singer Actually, I’m a lot smarter so...
Jack Stripling There’s gonna be another gray area …
Rick Singer No, there’s gonna be no gray area. There’s gonna be black and white. Because my first call is always to an attorney. My first thought is I only want to live in black and white. If it’s not black and it’s not white and it is not for certain, I’m going to find out the truth. Do parents want to work with me? Should they want to work with me? Just know this. I am going to do everything I possibly can for my families that is lawful. I am not going to break the rules. I am not going to do anything that counsel doesn’t say is absolutely black and white.
Jack Stripling Well look, I really appreciate you taking time to talk to us about all of this. And your candor and your time are so appreciated. Thank you so much.
Rick Singer And I appreciate you.
Jack Stripling After our interview with Rick Singer, we contacted the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of Massachusetts, and we asked about any ongoing negotiations over what Mr. Singer owes the government. Without elaboration, a spokeswoman for the office wrote in an email, “As it stands, Mr. Singer has an outstanding $10 million judgment.”
Jack Stripling This is the last episode of Season 2, so you won’t see new episodes in our feed for a few weeks. But we’ll have a special summer series that we think you’ll enjoy, and we’re excited to bring you Season 3 in the fall. If you have any thoughts or questions about our show, we’d love to hear from you. You can email us at collegematters@chronicle.com. I’m Jack Stripling. Thanks so much for listening.
College Matters from The Chronicle is a production of The Chronicle of Higher Education, the nation’s leading independent newsroom covering colleges. If you like the show, please leave us a review or invite a friend to listen. And remember to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts so that you never miss an episode. You can find an archive of every episode, all of our show notes, and much more at chronicle.com/collegematters.
We are produced by Rococo Punch. Our Chronicle producer is Fernanda Zamudio-Suarez. Our podcast artwork is by Catrell Thomas. Special thanks to our colleagues Brock Read, Sarah Brown, Carmen Mendoza, Ron Coddington, Joshua Hatch, and all of the people at The Chronicle who make this show possible.
