They grew up in a suburb of Cleveland in the political-battleground state of Ohio, now part of “Trump’s America.” The 19-year-old roommates, sophomores at Ohio State University, have been friends since childhood. Zain Zafar was born in the United States to Pakistani parents who came to America for education and jobs. They were also religious refugees, Ahmadiyya Muslims who faced persecution in Pakistan. His parents divorced, and his family sometimes lived paycheck to paycheck. Zain is pre-med but majoring in international studies.
Matt Murphy is of German, Polish, and Irish ancestry. He is a Methodist. His father works for a Fortune 500 company, and they live comfortably. Matt is a finance major.
We talked with them in their dorm room about their backgrounds, their friendship, and whether America’s charged political climate has tested that bond. Their conversation has been edited for length and clarity.
ON POLITICAL ENGAGEMENT
Matt: Pretty much wherever you’re getting your information is a little bit biased one way or the other. Politics interests me, but it’s not something I do in my free time. Zain is an international-studies major. He loves this stuff.
Politics affects me more than it does him.
Zain: Politics affects me more than it does him. A change in the economic policy probably would impact my single mom and my family more than it would his family. If there is a change in the Fafsa or a change in any social-economic policy, it would affect me more. So it’s more my responsibility to stay informed about politics. But sometimes I feel like Murph could stay along with me a little more in terms of what’s going on. Trump’s done the travel ban, and I’m just waiting for what’s next. He’s said a lot of different things about Muslims in America, and that’s why I’m constantly paying attention. Trump hasn’t directly talked to Murph’s, like, uh … what do I say here?
Matt: [laughing] To white people. …
Zain: [both laughing] He hasn’t talked directly to Murph’s specific group. Trump targeted my religion. So I’ve got to stay informed as much as I can. Murph is more informed than the majority of my friends, but I’m setting it as a priority to stay informed.
ON DONALD J. TRUMP
Zain: As the presidential campaign got closer and closer, I would hint to Matt, like, “Did you see what the Republican Party did today?” What Trump said here? Or what Rubio or Kasich or Cruz said? And then Murph would be like, “I’m still supporting Rubio.” Then I would be like, “Fine. OK. You’re cool.” In the back of my mind, I still thought Trump would never be the nominee and eventually become president. Then Trump became the nominee during the summer, and we didn’t really talk about it after that. When we came back to the dorms, I asked, “Murph, you’re not actually going to vote for Trump, right?” Almost sarcastically, believing that my roommate, who’s friends with a Muslim-American, wasn’t going to vote for a candidate that I thought was simply insane. We went to that Donald Trump rally [in Columbus, Ohio, in November 2015]. We were both there. We were looking at Trump in disbelief about some of the things he was saying.
Trump became the nominee during the summer, and we didn’t really talk about it after that.
Matt: I was mostly just impressed with how he controlled the crowd. The way that he can speak in public is just crazy. He can get you to say anything. People were chanting “Build the wall!” (I mean, we weren’t chanting.) He was like “Build - the - wall” and everyone — there were like 10,000 people there, all chanting. It was crazy. The dude, public-speakingwise, is incredible. Whether you like his ideas or not, he’s a convincing speaker.
HOW DID YOU REACT TO THE TRUMP VICTORY?
Zain: On a personal level, toward a man I’ve known since third grade — who has gained a deeper understanding of my religion, which I appreciate — I felt, honestly, frustrated. After the results of the election, I felt a little more anger toward Murph. I know that Donald Trump won a bunch of states, but you did not have to vote for this man, you could have voted for a third-party candidate. You could have voted for Gary Johnson, you could have written in Dwayne (the Rock) Johnson for all I care, but you did not have to vote for Trump. I remember us talking about it afterward. I was like, “You voted for this guy, Murph!” I don’t agree that it’s the best choice for him. What he saw with Hillary and some of the things she did, and what he saw with Trump and what he did, he thought Trump was the better economic choice. I said, “I get that, but Murph, you have to consider every single thing the man has done.” I believed Hillary was the right candidate. The election happened, and I was angry with Murph for a couple of days.
You voted for this guy, Murph! You have to consider every single thing the man has done.
Matt: I got the silent treatment from Zain for a little bit.
Zain: That’s what I do when I get mad.
Matt: He took the smaller Muhammad Ali poster [on the wall above Zain’s bunk] and took a tack and put it over the Trump-Pence one [a campaign sign above Matt’s bunk].
Zain: I was telling Murph before the election, “I can’t wait until Trump loses. I’m going to take down that sign. I’m going to tear it up.”
Matt: I told him if Trump loses, he could do whatever he wanted with that sign.
Zain: That frustration and anger toward Murph didn’t start until I finally knew that Trump had won. I was like “Murph, your vote had a role in that.” Had he lost, I would have been like, “Murph made a choice, and I would have pretended to respect it as best I could. But Trump won, so I was like, ‘Dang! Murph, you played a very small role, but you voted for him.’”
Matt: For a lot of people there was the initial shock of Trump’s winning. I’m pretty sure the majority of America thought, “There’s no way.” My family didn’t think there was a chance. I was talking to my mom and dad, and they thought there was no way, joking about it the week leading up to the election. I woke up the next morning and was like, “Holy crap! He actually did it.”
DO YOU DISCUSS RELIGION?
Matt. Yeah; when we talk about it we normally ask questions about the other’s religion. It’s curiosity-based. I have always known Muslims can’t eat pork, for example, and I asked Zain, “Why is that?” because I have no idea.
Zain, which way is Mecca from here?
So Zain explains it to me, and I’m like, “I can see that. That makes sense.” And I say, “Zain, which way is Mecca from here?” because that’s the direction that Zain prays. I would have no idea which way. I know they have prayers they have to perform throughout the day, so I’ve asked Zain what the significance is of each of them. It’s interesting to me.
Zain: I grew up in Hudson, Ohio, which is 96-percent Caucasian. So the majority of the population is Christian. I didn’t have an understanding of why you guys go to church on Sundays. How do you read the Bible and how do I compare it with how I read the Quran? I wanted a deeper understanding of Murph’s philosophy. I gained a deeper understanding of how Christians perceive Jesus compared with how I perceive Jesus as a prophet of God, not the son of God. I was always enamored with that idea, and I was always confused. Murph was able to clear that up for me a little and explain why Christianity believes a certain form and why Islam believes a different form.
WHAT WOULD LIFE BE LIKE IF YOU TRADED PLACES?
Zain: It would be different in the way I’d be treated and perceived by other people. I believe my life would be more manageable and a little less difficult. I still believe in the fundamental concepts and ideas of my religion. In today’s political climate, I always go back to what my parents did. They fled Pakistan. They fled religious persecution to openly practice their faith. I’ll be honest, you know what I did today? I went to Thompson Library and prayed with a friend of mine, in between the bookshelves. No one bothered us, and no one said anything. We did two prayers, and I felt good about praying. I felt good about being a Muslim in America. But sometimes I look at Murph, and I’m jealous of always being the one picked out. Growing up in a Caucasian town, I was always looked at in a different way. I could just sense it in people’s eyes.
I remember walking down the street once with my little sister, and this woman switched sides. I don’t know why. She didn’t have a dog or anything, she was just walking with her kid. There was plenty of room on the sidewalk, and she just switched sides. I looked at my sister and I was like, “Why would she do that?” That’s when I was truly jealous.
Every time I go to the airport I just feel nervous.
I was 16, and I remember thinking, “Dang! Is there a difference between how I look and how Murph looks?” The day after Bin Laden died, a lot of people in my middle school came up to me and said “Your grandpa has died.” One kid just started chanting “U.S.A.! U.S.A.!” for two straight minutes. My parents have taught me that you need to leave the situation. My mom was wearing a scarf around her head right after 9/11, and a dude just runs up and pulls it from her. I remember that day I felt — not embarrassed, just scared to be a Muslim. I’m tired of people discriminating against my community. Every time Trump tweets something, every time Tomi Lahren says something about Muslims, that is not the representation of my friends and my Muslim community. We do blood drives and other community events, and then some guy [kills] in the name of Islam in Florida, and everybody is like, “These are what Muslims are.” No they’re not.
They’re hard-working people looking for an opportunity to get an education and for their kids to succeed. My mom came to this country fleeing religious persecution. One of her kids got a scholarship to Davidson College, the other one is going to Ohio State to become a doctor, and that’s what the American Dream is about. And that is what Muslims are about. There’s no separation between Muslim-American. It can be a connected word.
I’m jealous of Murph because when he goes to the airport he doesn’t have a care in the world. No offense to you, Murph, but when I go to the airport I get nervous because I know security is going to do something. My dad has been stopped for eight hours and missed his flight and was questioned. My brother has been questioned coming back from trips. Thankfully, nothing has happened to me so far, but every time I go to the airport I feel nervous. Last year there was a bomb threat at OSU, and I was wearing a backpack and walking to class. There was a cop car parked outside Ohio Stadium. I turned around and the car was gone, so I thought he must have gotten called somewhere. Then the cop comes around again, and he just stares at me. I was just like, “What? I’m walking back from class.” And that’s when I get jealous of Murph, because you’re not being looked at that way.
Matt: I think it would be tough. It’s easier to be a white Christian guy than to be a Muslim guy in America. It sucks, it really does. People haven’t gotten over the whole racism thing, and I really don’t understand it. Zain is one of the nicest kids I have ever met. All of Zain’s Muslim friends and family — he still calls some of them family members even though they’re not actually related — the people in his Mosque. They are some of the nicest guys I have ever met in my life.
The problem is, you have people like Zain, the very average Muslim-American. I would say the majority of them, like 99.9 percent, are just like Zain. And then you get the idiot or two that goes and does something horrendous, and those are the things that get publicized. If you count up all of the people who did that and then divide it by the total Muslim community in the United States it’s a really small number, I’m sure. It just sucks because that’s not who Muslims really are. Zain has explained this to me so many times. He even says they are not Muslim, the people that do that.
WILL THIS AFFECT YOUR FRIENDSHIP?
Matt: I don’t agree with the person he voted for, but if I look at it from Zain’s point of view, I would have voted for Hillary Clinton 10 times out of 10. If I were Zain, there is no reason I would have voted for anyone different. I respect his opinion. I’m not mad that he voted for Hillary. There’s no anger toward him at all. At the end of the day we’re both friends, fellow Americans, and both Buckeyes. That’s bigger than who you vote for.
At the end of the day, we’re both friends, fellow Americans, and both Buckeyes. That’s bigger than who you vote for.
Zain: At the end of the day, we all love this nation. What Murph and I have is an understanding of each other. When he supported Trump, I didn’t say he’s crazy, he’s stupid, or ignore him completely. I said why does he vote for Donald Trump? What’s his understanding of politics? Is there anything I can do to influence or change that? You need to have an understanding of the person and not dismiss them completely. When I stopped talking to him, when I was mad about the election, I was only making things worse because I wasn’t having open communication. We always talk. Sometimes we find a consensus, sometimes we end up at completely different points of view. We’re still friends because we both love playing FIFA, we both love playing basketball, we have shared interests in music. We’re friends, and politics does not define who we are. We respect each other’s point of view. I love this guy because he’s a friend of mine. He’s had my back, and I will always have his.
Ty Wright is an Ohio-based freelance photographer. More of his work can be seen at tywrightphotography.com.
Rose Engelland is a senior photo and video editor at The Chronicle. Email her at rose.engelland@chronicle.com.